Factuals & Factives Board

[Old Owner]

I have decided that it was high time to create a board for discussion of factuals and factives. Although we are a fictive and fictionkin site, we do have an otherkin and therianthropy board. I felt it was only fair to have a board for factives and factuals.

Enjoy!

 

[2612]

Yeah I've always been thinking this was a great idea given how tied in it often is with everything else, and there's not really a place for factuals/factives to go despite that we have a number of them here.

 

[S.H.]

Oh, is factuals the new term for real-life-based equivalent of Fictionkin? Wasn't sure there was an established term yet.

 

[2612]

we actually thought it was "factualkin", so I really have no idea, there probably isn't actually an established term yet

 

[Old Owner]

There isn't really an established term. It's just what I used for now.

 

[AlmostAmalthea]

I am used to hearing the term "past life"… but it is true that sometimes the identity of the past life can hold on as strongly as any other 'type

 

[2612]

Some factivekin/factives are actually of currently living people and don't necesarily believe their existence has to do with the concept of having lived as past live as those people though.

 

[AlmostAmalthea]

Oh, that is peculiar. Could you give us some practical examples?

 

[2612]

Well the user Cigaro on the forums here identifies as Serj Tankian, who is a still living person, a well known musician. I don't know exactly if he believes it to be a past life in some alternate timeline or something, I don't know what his beliefs to describe his experience are if any. In general I think factivekin or factives tend to be more likely to be currently living people based on what I've seen (what keeps coming to mind is stuff like members of bands and stuff).

 

[S.H.]

I think I've seen factives split more or less evenly under dead and still living real people, but factualkin (the few I've seen) do tend to be of currently living people. At least in my experience. There don't seem to be many around in general.

 

[MonolithHyena]

^^' haha Whats that???

 

[jabberwocky]

I think it's important to be careful with the concept of identifying as other currently living people? Especially with singlets IDing as Factuals or Factivekin, because it's different from being an introject in a system. I've seen people use the idea of nonconsensual spirituality and factuals together to abuse and stalk a friend of mine, saying that they were her and had the same soul. It was terrifying to hear about. I've also been through similar abuses and to hear about the topic is honestly triggering to the point of panic attacks to me sometimes because of the potential for abuse. I'm not going to say it can't happen or doesn't exist, because I'm sure it's definitely something that's happened, but....it's a valid concern to bring up. Some people have been triggered by the idea and we need to take it into account.

 

[Flyboy Fox]

I think it's important to be careful with the concept of identifying as other currently living people? Especially with singlets IDing as Factuals or Factivekin, because it's different from being an introject in a system. I've seen people use the idea of nonconsensual spirituality and factuals together to abuse and stalk a friend of mine, saying that they were her and had the same soul. It was terrifying to hear about. I've also been through similar abuses and to hear about the topic is honestly triggering to the point of panic attacks to me sometimes because of the potential for abuse. I'm not going to say it can't happen or doesn't exist, but....it's a valid concern to bring up. Some people have been triggered by the idea and we need to take it into account.

Yeah, I'm going to add onto that that the potential for harm also exists when a person identifies as (or has a factive of) a person or people (alive or dead) who have done actual terrible things in this real world. Especially where the incident(s) happened within a relatively recent time-frame and there's a good chance that someone directly or indirectly hurt by the incident finds evidence of someone claiming to be that person. I understand that we can't control who we identify as or gain within our systems... having said that, I'm not going to lie. I've seen people identifying as recent mass murderers and/or serial killers who've talked openly about their 'crimes' and even outright claimed they'd do it again or are infatuated with media coverage of those crimes, or have fetishes related to the crimes... they fill their blogs unremorsefully with related images and joke about it. It made me more than uncomfortable.

Having said that, hopefully everyone on this forum is mature enough and intelligent enough to know what to talk about publicly and what is liable to make people angry and upset. While I completely agree that we should be able to talk about our experiences, however controversial or upsetting they may be... the right to talk about being someone who has hurt other people doesn't outweigh the right of people to feel comfortable and unthreatened in a place like this.

We do have an opt-in subforum for controversial topics, also... so remember that when deciding where to post.

As a whole, I have no problem at all with factives/factualkin, provided that they:

- Don't harass the person/people they ID as.
- Don't post deliberately provocative material that might upset people hurt by the person they ID as.
- Don't claim to know inside the specific mind or life of the physical person they ID as.

I know it doesn't seem fair to hold additional standards for factives/factualkin, but given their nature, it's definitely a more delicate situation. I don't mean to come across as cold (factives/factualkin are welcome here, of course!), I just worry about a repeat of incidents I've seen online before. But I may be jumping the gun. It should all be fine.

 

[S.H.]

I agree with everything jabberwocky and Tails has said, and have been thinking it ever since factives came to light, but am always not sure how socially acceptable it is to bring up these points in case it... Offends somebody. Glad you guys had more courage than me.

 

[Old Owner]

Listen, anyone can stalk others. It's all a matter of behavior and safety here with anyone. To be honest, factuals and factives have the same basic expectations as any other members, and I actually find it unfair that there is so much judgemental behavior occuring in this thread. This debate should be a non-issue simply because I hold everyone, factual or fictionkin, factive or fictive responsible for their own actions. There is absolutely no way I would let dangerous behaviors, topics, and actions slip through.

 

[AlmostAmalthea]

Moreover, I think a factive will have more empathy and respect and understanding that e.g. a fan person, for the private life.

 

[jabberwocky]

I don't mean to be judgemental, but I did think it was important to bring up the potential for abuse and that it has triggered people before, that's all. I think it's worth being considerate of people who have triggers along those lines. I'm not condemning anyone in particular, and I don't mean to offend. I just had concerns that I voiced to the community and that I feel have now been addressed and put to rest.

~Rook

 

[2612]

I think really without even realizing it, the points Flyboy Fox mentioned are all exactly things one would expect from any member anyways. It's not something that necesarily needs to be brought up for Factives/Factivekin specifically in my opinion. Just like a fictionkin shouldn't go harass and stalk their author to demand they change their story to make it "accurate" or something similar, a factive or factivekin would have similar expectations towards the living people they identify as.

So we're not holding Factives or Factivekin to "higher standards" anymore than we would be holding a fictionkin or anyone else to higher standards in my opinion.

He's just pointing out specific considerations that appear when you start to address Factives/Factivekin, the same way specific considerations appear when you start to cater towards Fictionkin. It's just that for Fictionkin those things were already expected since that's what this community is centered around.

I didn't really see it as them as actually being judgemental or actually holding Factives or Factivekin to any higher of standards. At least not by my interpretation.

 

[Flyboy Fox]

Thanks. Of course I wasn't attempting to be judgemental... I think when anything 'new' is introduced that has potentially controversial implications or has caused trouble in the past, those things ought to be at least briefly addressed. The same goes for fictionkin/fictives as a whole, which is why there are forum rules that all members are expected to read and adhere to. I'm not holding anyone to higher standards... just that there are a couple of issues that are factive/factualkin specific and so I raised them because I thought they should be aired in light of awful things I've seen happen with a select few in the past. Of course I don't think most factives/factualkin are liable to act that way or do those things, and I don't have anything against anyone who identifies as a living or dead 'real' person. I would be a hypocrite and very closed-minded if I tried to be hierarchical about it... we've all seen what happens when we do that (e.g. otherkin who look down on fictionkin, etc). I apologise if I offended anyone; it wasn't my intention at all. Everyone is welcome here, and Elsa is absolutely correct that staff and especially the admins will make sure none of that behaviour occurs. I do feel this is a safe place. I was just saying my piece, and I'm done now. Enjoy the new subforum, facto-people!

 

[AlmostAmalthea]

So we agree that the "stalking" issue is not "factual-related" issue but has to do with the individual xirself and that any fiction kin (or otherkin or therian, for that matter…) has just any chances of being a stalker than any other person, factual or not?

Few, I thought you were starting to act elitist and judgmental like the otherkin forums you despise so much… ^^;